Breath - a first person shooter about drugs, sex and violence Thread

Well, I'll make this kind of short... This is not the regular base concept of a shooter the one I have... I'm almost done with a "basic" pitch document for this mod or videogame (I'm not sure if this could be a videogame due to money issues) so I'll just promote the idea with its bases:

1. This is not an action focused game.
2. This is not a game about a super soldier nor a criminal, this is about a teenager with drugs problems.
3. This game will present some simulation situations similar to a Persona game.
4. The violence, sex and drug use will be explicit, non-censored and set in a realistic way.
5. The game won't present you a story you must follow, instead you'll be given a good number of NPCs you can interact and then set up what to do next
6. This game is looking for an AO rating.

Ok, now that I show you the 6 most important points of "Breath" I'll will explain them very shortly...

1+2= No action sequences and Junkie

What I'm meaning is not making a game about "kill'em all you gruesome soldier of Doom" but more a complex and dynamic experience according to your character evolving. As you are a junkie, and you can consume any drug you can find, buy, steal or produce, you will constantly have allucinations, anxiety problems besides any other stuff, that will make you see "unusual" things that can be just a toilet, a person or nothing... if you're attacked, you can't possibly sure if that's what happening. We can say, I'm looking foward to simulate the drug effects in a videogame and that you can kill someone for pure fun, or because the voices told you so.

3+4= Simulation+Non-censorship

When playing the game you will be able to consume a very vast amount of different drugs, from heroine to pcp or DMT and even coke and stone... when you do so, you will actually be smoking, inhalating or drinking that drug in real time, you'll actually see the animation and you will have more likely to use the keyboard to order yourself to do it. But drugs don't come easy, you must negociate, meet people, gain friends among other things that will make you get them easily, and you have to take care of your image, so you must go to school, or your job or whatever you will choose to do (if you choose to do something besides just being a stoner) to keep your life going "normally".

5+6= Free Opened World+Reality

In this game, you'll be able to get laid, if you manage to make a girl or boy have sex with you via chatting, talking or even just druging her/hum (the rape option is being considered) This game also is giving the chance of being a boy or a girl as the main character. About the story/plot... you'll make it, as you manage to talk and get a social life more balanced, you'll be able to get a job, a friend and task to do in them, so you'll be waving you're life as you want it.

When I finished the final document I'll upload it, it's kind of large and well detailed, but right now I'm looking for people who can be interested in this project (participating in any way they can) and opinions. Thxs!

bakentake wrote: Cause and effect? i.e. you do decide to fornicate, but with the characters best friends girl. Is the best friend pissed?

Makes me think of mirrors edge a little if your First Person and get all the drugged effects straight up like you're actually the character. I suppose it could work as a game I don't know how fun it would be though, depends on how it was executed. Although you kinda contradict yourself by saying a "first person shooter" then say its not an action game? *shrug* Maybe I'm just picky but "First Person Game", shooter itself implies that your always holding a gun shooting at something - thus an action game. :\

Yup, the friend will got pissed. And the action will be happening just in the moment you're very high and seeing things, and listening to the voices or hallucinating... think of it as a Call of Cthulhu sanity system.

Kind of sounds like the Sims in first person. Perhaps one of the paths I shall take is Mafia Don.

Handgun_Hero wrote: Kind of sounds like the Sims in first person. Perhaps one of the paths I shall take is Mafia Don.

Well, I'm not sure if would be too much like the Sims, but yeah... we can said is something like that! xD

Adult Sims?

Will I be able to snort cocaine out of a hooker's ass crack when I'm supposed to be having lunch with my grandmother?
can my grandmother participate in this act?

if not that's a dealbreaker

Handgun_Hero wrote: Adult Sims?

Something like that, we can say... there is a "plot" but it's self-builded depending on your interactions with other NPCs

Sebbeman wrote: Will I be able to snort cocaine out of a hooker's ass crack when I'm supposed to be having lunch with my grandmother?
can my grandmother participate in this act?

if not that's a dealbreaker

If you're looking that exclusive action... I'm not exactly sure about it.

Uhm, not to be negative... But games are supose to be fun, take us away from reality and take us into the fantasy world of being who we arent, and doing what we cant... Simulations just bring us back to reality, in a more buggy and frustrating way, I hate sims -sigh- the only thing that could be worthwhile is the sex, everybody loves sex, the more explicit, the beter... but that wont last very long either...
----
Maybe you could do a fantasy adventure, alil creativity of the top of my head, a group of addict friends get high, and end up in their fantasy state of mind, paranoid, with very absurd humour and fun, like saving the world from "insert something rediculous", but you have to jump between the worlds of reality and fantasy to achieve certain goals, when the drug wears off, the player finds him/herself at some random place, and needs to get a fix to get back to fantasy adventure and continue that way you already simulating the addiction lol (but have a limit to how much you can take before you OD, and different drugs can provide different features, like one makes you stronger, another makes you fly, another makes you invisible, i dont know much bout drug experiances though, but all that can be taken into consideration, and you can still use the violence and sex aswell...
I think this will do sooo much beter than just another sim, especialy beter than a sh*t boring life (like my life isnt boring enough)... can somebody maybe agree with me?

Edited by: Joe_Shmoe

I like the psychological ideas. One idea I had that I thought would be a crazy game is a video game adaptation of American Psycho- as the entire book/film behaves similarly to a video game in that he thinks all of it is really happening but at the end turns out he was just fantasizing about going on a crazy killing spree-- something like that I could see working in a game like this.. only not as violent- more like the player is completely out of control of their perceptions.

This is however a VERY risky game and could be seen as drug propaganda EVEN if the game is showing it in a negative way- so be CAREFUL. but I like the idea of the game being more about the corruption of adolescent minds- not enough-- correction NO games are made about this issue.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I like the psychological ideas. One idea I had that I thought would be a crazy game is a video game adaptation of American Psycho- as the entire book/film behaves similarly to a video game in that he thinks all of it is really happening but at the end turns out he was just fantasizing about going on a crazy killing spree-- something like that I could see working in a game like this.. only not as violent- more like the player is completely out of control of their perceptions.

This is however a VERY risky game and could be seen as drug propaganda EVEN if the game is showing it in a negative way- so be CAREFUL. but I like the idea of the game being more about the corruption of adolescent minds- not enough-- correction NO games are made about this issue.

It's nice to see someone who did get the whole picture and about the drug propaganda, I'll just ask Tool to help me with major demands xD

Joe_Shmoe wrote: Uhm, not to be negative... But games are supose to be fun, take us away from reality and take us into the fantasy world of being who we arent, and doing what we cant... Simulations just bring us back to reality, in a more buggy and frustrating way, I hate sims -sigh- the only thing that could be worthwhile is the sex, everybody loves sex, the more explicit, the beter... but that wont last very long either...
----
Maybe you could do a fantasy adventure, alil creativity of the top of my head, a group of addict friends get high, and end up in their fantasy state of mind, paranoid, with very absurd humour and fun, like saving the world from "insert something rediculous", but you have to jump between the worlds of reality and fantasy to achieve certain goals, when the drug wears off, the player finds him/herself at some random place, and needs to get a fix to get back to fantasy adventure and continue that way you already simulating the addiction lol (but have a limit to how much you can take before you OD, and different drugs can provide different features, like one makes you stronger, another makes you fly, another makes you invisible, i dont know much bout drug experiances though, but all that can be taken into consideration, and you can still use the violence and sex aswell...
I think this will do sooo much beter than just another sim, especialy beter than a sh*t boring life (like my life isnt boring enough)... can somebody maybe agree with me?

Well... the concept of action can be very very relative, but to your second point; I'm not looking foward to something that hippie like Waking Life, this could be more like: A Scanner Darkly+Dead Space (of course there will be action delivered moments, but that's not the main focus in here) Here the main goal is: resist the temptation of the drugs and yourself.

I get what you say... but something like this, honestly speaking as a gamer, is not gaming material... its artistic cinematic material, maybe you should look at doing machanima then, or do a game if you want, but im fairly sure its not going to be very playble in terms of fun and excitement (except for the sex part, and maybe few brief action parts)... its just not practical... but now this inspired me on a new game idea (old idea, but new incarnation) =] good luck with your game

Joe_Shmoe wrote: I get what you say... but something like this, honestly speaking as a gamer, is not gaming material... its artistic cinematic material, maybe you should look at doing machanima then, or do a game if you want, but im fairly sure its not going to be very playble in terms of fun and excitement (except for the sex part, and maybe few brief action parts)... its just not practical... but now this inspired me on a new game idea (old idea, but new incarnation) =] good luck with your game

Yeah, I know what you mean. Thing is I'm not looking the traditional gamer, and not the traditional gaming. When I finish the pitch document maybe the idea will be more clearer.

Another thing we can do if both combine the ideas we have, form a team together and see what happens (now that I come to think about it... that could be great!)

We can discuss that, i realy wouldnt mind helping out with ideas as i have so many... I take gaming up quite seriously, and so i know what works and what doesnt... I know what you mean by aproaching only select gamers... But you have to think about getting out what you put in, no use going through all that trouble and you have like 10 people that enjoyed it... and also, your team must apeal to your idea, otherwise they wouldnt see the project through without support of gamers... but PM me and we can talk more =]

Maybe we don't know how to present non-traditional game subject matter as games because no-one willing to experiment with them to see what works. If no-one tries these things we'll never find out

I also hope this game doesn't attract the so-called "ART" gamers. (Ie. academic assholes that praise the game as Interactive Art NOT as a game.)

I think the issue here is you've got a subject matter here that is very harsh, and then you've got a medium where the whole point is entertainment and fun (mainly the gameplay). These are conflicting- my suggestion would be make the game more like an adventure game played from first person, adventure games can easily get away with these issues (ie. Phantasmagoria) and I think may be the only way you could tell your story without watering down its impact to facilitate the gameplay.

I think if you don't hurt the story by putting in inappropriate gameplay I think you'll have a winner here. This is going to be difficult to design though because if you try to have too much fun the story will get lost and the subject immediately becomes glossed over and hyper real- it become glamorized. To oppose that re-education via adventure game mechanics would counter this..

Pay VERY good attention to your rhetoric (ie. Persuasion and Arguments) and semiotics (ie. Meaning and Symbolism) here- I think you need to find gameplay also that conforms to those. Its up to you how you go about this though. Best of luck.

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I also hope this game doesn't attract the so-called "ART" gamers. (Ie. academic assholes that praise the game as Interactive Art NOT as a game.)

I think the issue here is you've got a subject matter here that is very harsh, and then you've got a medium where the whole point is entertainment and fun (mainly the gameplay). These are conflicting- my suggestion would be make the game more like an adventure game played from first person, adventure games can easily get away with these issues (ie. Phantasmagoria) and I think may be the only way you could tell your story without watering down its impact to facilitate the gameplay.

I think if you don't hurt the story by putting in inappropriate gameplay I think you'll have a winner here. This is going to be difficult to design though because if you try to have too much fun the story will get lost and the subject immediately becomes glossed over and hyper real- it become glamorized. To oppose that re-education via adventure game mechanics would counter this..

Pay VERY good attention to your rhetoric (ie. Persuasion and Arguments) and semiotics (ie. Meaning and Symbolism) here- I think you need to find gameplay also that conforms to those. Its up to you how you go about this though. Best of luck.

Well I think now it's time to tell the "main" plot in here so most of the "holes" are covered. You're an addict of "Liberty" (an in game drug that could be resumed to: DMT+Coke+Heroine) who must face himself in a day by day situation. The game begins with you waking up in the middle of the street and as you "go home" you will be able to develop your character. Example: You see at the subway map the distint districts of the city (suburbs, down-town, etc) and according to where did you choose to go, you'll have your money account and social balance (NPCs you'll meet at this point and will help you to develop the story) as you arrive to the district depending of who do you talk to and what building you choose to enter... in that very point you'll be given you're clothes and other props; your family will be determined depending of the room you ask the key as you enter (there will be 5 options: you and your fathers, you alone, a random relative and you, you and your boy/girlfriend, you and a random roomate) after taking a nap and getting dry out of the effects you must find a job and go to school if YOU choose to go to it... you'll be given a three days time lapse (in game) to get use to the game and develop your character... once this happens, you'll meet at a distinct point depending what you're doing in the very moment, a man calling himself as "The Crawler" telling you to refer him as Duncan. Duncan informs you that in a week from that day "You'll be facing yourself in the middle of a dark mirror" Whe that day comes you start fighting some creatures you find everytime you get high on drugs, depending of the force of the drug, the stronger the creatures will be, and every creature will be a respective symbolism related to you and what you choose to do in the game. You only see this creatures and their "mind traps" if you're high and you never know if you're looking at them or at nothing or at a normal person. You have an "anxiety meter" that will be fisionomics symptons (sweating, heavy breath, dilated pupils, etc) if this meter start to get over control, it's because you're losing it and you're beginning to see those creatures and their world and will enter berserk, if they are stable, you'll be normal (duh!) and if they really drop down you'll have the same when you lose it, but you won't be berserk, you'll be nearly catatonic and WILL really need to get drugs or sex or kill to control that. Depending of the drug this can make you neutral, berserk o calm... Anyhow those are the main gameplay aspects and the main plot starting point.

Think about this like a: Donnie Darko+Trainspotting (story aspects) meets Silent Hill+Fear (monsters and gameplay) and Persona (simulation area)

Oh! About your last paragraph... don't worry man, I'm familiar with that. My career needs uses lot of Semiology

P.S.: No, this won't be a game to be called art. This game is looking to show the gamers a distinct world... and yeah, to attract junkies too.

Edited by: FranklyTired

I get what your trying to do, but your execution isn't the best here.. you're rewarding the player by providing them an escape from the boring gameplay- the result would be the user is constantly buffing up on Sex, Drugs and killing.. the game should instead reward the user for controlling those urges- Stereotypically going Postal is what the player's original instinct is to do, rather than reward this you should instead engage the user in other gameplay options- sure you'll need to get bloody eventually but the gameplay should focus more on that if the player did have to kill someone its out of pure NEED to do it- A good example of a fucked up individual in those circumstances would be Case from Neuromancer (Which I was trying to make a game about) because he's a drug addict and had to do some pretty messed up shit to survive on the streets. I think you should definitely take a look at the book if you're interested in the corruption of youth in a way that can be also entertaining and very serious.

I also don't get why this is an FPS, it sounds like an RPG.. I also dislike Oblivion style Tutorial Character selections because they're just fillers and actually go against the concept of an RPG character creation process (Which is to create the characters backstory without any screwing around.) Good example of how to do this right in modern times would be Mass Effect because the game starts you off picking a class, picking a back story and then you play, Oblivion made it so you were playing even before you picked your character.. this is NOT correct RPG practice and most of the time I skip the start of the games that do this.

What I also don't understand is where the FPS gameplay would come into the game, there doesn't appear to be any action elements in this game- it seems more like a survival horror game/simulator. Something like System Shock 2 would be very appropriate for this- in fact it has a lot of what you're suggesting, Weird ass hallucination, Drugs and an RPG system for customizing your character. I think you should use that as a template for your game- I think it'd really make it a better product in the end- I mean it worked sorta for Bioshock (though that was more of a shooter-- a lot of the RPG was missing IMO).

But yeah your ideas are still interesting, you've just got to be careful with what your telling people to do in your game, else people will think you're crazy and are trying to teach people how to be the next school shooting murder.. If I see you on FoxNews then its not a good thing.. I think your game could be stronger in terms of story and dialogue if there are JUSTIFIED reasons for the corrupt things- and that the player is psychologically weighing this up as he/she plays.

Edited by: formerlyknownasMrCP

Yeah, I agree... and I've read Neuromancer, most part of it is my inspiration for this game. And you know what, you're right about the last point. This would be a System Shock 2 style game but with more simulation content. I hate games that doesn't give their NPCs something to make them worthy.

I was thinking about a traditional character creation where you can choose everything one by one, but I think that would be kind of the same thing.

well the trick is to make it so you design your characters back story, THEN allow the player to play out the present, the player can then sculpt their future that way. Think character and non-linearity of Deus Ex with the RPG elements of System Shock and the sheer awesome shock value of Neuromancer.. I think if you follow that formula you'll have a winner. Looking forward to seeing what you can do, but just remember to treat the subject matter with the respect it deserves.

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: well the trick is to make it so you design your characters back story, THEN allow the player to play out the present, the player can then sculpt their future that way. Think character and non-linearity of Deus Ex with the RPG elements of System Shock and the sheer awesome shock value of Neuromancer.. I think if you follow that formula you'll have a winner. Looking forward to seeing what you can do, but just remember to treat the subject matter with the respect it deserves.

And that's the whole reason I didn't publish the pitch document yet... I'm going nice and slow and with caution in the screenplay. There is a back story that is the Liberty drug expanding in the modern youth. They call it like that because it causes a sensation of being able to free yourself from the material world. And I'm thinking of those options, for real. If you want to join me in the development of it you're most welcome.

P.S.: I'm not into the esoteric stuff, but I'm really thinking of Tool for the OST xD

My mummy wouldn't let me play this I will have to be sneaky as teh ninja!

... or just wait. By the time it's finished you'll be a few years older and can probably play anyway

Gibberstein wrote: ... or just wait. By the time it's finished you'll be a few years older and can probably play anyway

I'll take that as a compliment (if people do help me with this, we'll probably end it up even earlier xD)

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I also hope this game doesn't attract the so-called "ART" gamers. (Ie. academic assholes that praise the game as Interactive Art NOT as a game.)

uhm... haha

Mr_Cyberpunk wrote: I also hope this game doesn't attract the so-called "ART" gamers. (Ie. academic assholes that praise the game as Interactive Art NOT as a game.)

Being an academic asshole myself who turned the game Far Cry into a virtual interactive environment in which to explore and experience places and events of William Shakespeare`s play "The Tempest" I would like to comment on your statement. In my humble opinion game as a set of rules which dictate win or fail is only one of the possibilities of how to deal with a virtual interactive environment. You can follow the missions in GTA4 (the game part) but you can also explore the city, take a cruise in a car, PLAY WITH the rules of the virtual environment you are in (like trying out what happens if you hunt pedestrians with your car) or as a next step PLAY AGAINST the rules (like trying to get to places the game doesn`t want you to get to by a series of exactly timed jumps), a step which I would consider as a pre-form of modding which changes the rules and content of an virtual environment to enable new forms of game as well as play. As you can see the game is already more than "pure" game, it is a complex interactive system and to enable such a variety of playing styles in my humble opinion is a work of art.